The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Gift of . 0.174 I Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private post on the other points. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? Step Down debate again. Why do you think a7'6" rod is short for a #5 ? The 1970 Dickerson has the same type tip as the 1952 except it has a very shallow flex in the upper butt and a faster swell into the butt, a 4/5 wt, faster rod. For example a 13 was really a 13.5? Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Browse our bamboo fly rods in stock and available now, Browse our collection of reels in stock and available now. I haven't tried a WF6 but suspect it'd be about perfect. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:25, Post You are correct, this is just a way of evaluating the effects of adding or subtracting material from different areas along a rods length. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. Easy casting and very versatile. I'm off to the antipodes next year, and I'm hoping that the 7'6'' #5 that should be a #4 will go with me. Jim Schaaf. Let's be honest about this. The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. bamboo fly rod blank (two-piece single tip) - Proof Fly Fishing 6'6" 2wt. A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. Strong tip; butt has flex area from 45" to 80" then a butt swell at 80". Here are the tapers of the Dickerson 8014GS from the rod Jeff Fultz mic'ed and from Banjo's rod, since I had several requests both on and off list, I'll post here so anyone who wants them can save them. (Harry Boyd). 0.138 (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. Adding material to the butt section will stiffen and add power. Overhanging trees? (John Silveira). It seems several people have made rods for a given ferrule size (Dickerson #) with a size larger Super-Z. For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. On Corrib I used an 8'8''#4 nearly all the time, in fact I designed it for the job. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive). It's an Asian knockoff of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper. Contact us to learn more about how we can help! (Bob Norwood). 85 0.296 138357 If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. I like 8013's. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. 15 0.115 163502 The butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some, the tips are quite satisfactory. I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. I've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker's listserv years ago. This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? Is the 8013 just a 6" longer 7613 or what are the differences? 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. Help from forum members would be welcomed. Regardless of what any book says about what size ferrule belongs on this or that rod, i look at the flat to flat measurements at the ferrule ends and make my own decision about what ferrule to use. I thought it was in there, but I didn't have the link, and the CD I got from Lowell is at home. 0.288 An awful lot of fudging, especially as he could have made up tip rings quite easily. Mr. Garrison did indeed design excellent rod tapers, but his tapers as well as all tapers ONLY HAVE A STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL STRESS CURVE under a very specific set of line conditions, outside of these conditions the SC is no longer Horizontal or straight but just another Curve. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. I like Paynes too! 10 .112 .262 The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. (Jerry Foster). (Timothy Troester). 2 piece. Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. 2023 American Museum Of Fly Fishing. But if you change any of these inputs, the taper, length or weight of line cast, the stress curve will no longer be flat. Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. Casting 20 feet of 5wt line the stress curve is flat. For my money I can think of a couple of rods I like better than anything Dickerson made. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. I only use short rods on overgrown streams. 4070 Main Street, Obviously, custom tapers take a little longer to develop and build. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), As far as being a Straight horizontal Stress Curve it makes NO difference what the rod is as long as the conditions produce a SHSC. by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post Can do a little better some days, but not always. No Question about it, John Pickard. It is, literally, the shape of the rod itself and determines how . A rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing. I own a Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods. The difference is for a step-down ferrule. Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. Solid construction of suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties. by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. At The Airport. I will suggest that rodmakers as a whole are not (especially the "classics" who were trying to make a living by banging out rods), but also that minor variances of a few thousandths occurring at random do not have a large impact on the rod actions as a whole. Its a very useful exercise. Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? I have had my rod alongside an original and except for mine being new they were identical. One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding's Golden Witch version. Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. 10 .310 .159 anyway that's how I do it. However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. Post Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. Some good stuff here. I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". Powell Rods. Hmmm. (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? 0.102 Point Dimension by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. 10 0.101 154505 There are about 4 to 5 version of the 7013, I like the 1970 version the best. .350@40 All that stops me is time, I get about six weeks a year unencumbered by business or meetings and I'm booked up to 2010! I have also noticed the mention of a Dickerson 8014GS. Here are the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the Dickerson 8014 GS. by Mike McGuire 06/16/16 23:29, Post Start out by choosing your fly rod, and follow it up with a visit to our collection of fly reels. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. (Harry Boyd). We're committed to providing a safe, comfortable environment for our travelers. 35 .207 .086 But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you! November - May To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . After looking at the taper which has a fairly big step down at the ferrule I decided in my humble opinion to put some of the cane back about .01". Consider this one if your maker plans on using Super Z ferrules. I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. Dickerson rods have the charm of being different (and scarce). You simply have to then adjust the rate of change of the taper - the rise. What you have done is show the slope to the tip to butt. So it seems that we are actually in complete agreement. (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post The only limit you have in this process, you can't change the tip diameter because you would be changing the line weight of the rod. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) Very Good condition. The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. For any thing else but roll casting or keeping a very finite weight of DT in the air, it's useless. 60 0.231 142296 (Robin Haywood). While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. (Will Price). The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. If you want a starting point then make the rate of taper 20 thousandths per inch and hollow build to 50 or 60% of original wall thickness. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. Powered by Shopify. 80 0.296 121171 (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. Assuming this to be thus you have made adjustments so small that they are mostly below normal error, and if we allow a factor for variation in natural materials then the exercise becomes entirely futile except as an exercise in applied physics! Winston Rods. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. Could this be the difference between an 861711D and an 861711? . Interests: Building bamboo fly rods (occasionally), fly fishing for trout. (Will Price), Dickerson standardized his reel seats with a 3/8's inside diameter bore, hence the .375 under the grip and reel seat. Ten measurements on the butt and ten stations on the tip. Click here to directly compare the action of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below. 0.138 (David Atchison), Wondered if anyone had the taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around. 5 0.088 112541 The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. Can you direct me to where I can find more information on this? To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. The Dickersons that I've seen were similar. 0.360 (Tim Pembroke). Then the part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo inside the male slide 'stepped down' to .187" ID, or 12/64. 0.189 Reducing material in the butt section will make the butt more limber and allow flex deeper into the butt. I don't disagree with any one here in fact I think you are all correct. It throws up some very interesting facts. Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. On a theoretical straight line or linear taper the rod would load progressively down to the handle. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers. (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. However many people may like them, does this mean they cannot be improved on? (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. 0.292 (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? Garrison would have like straight line stress/strain results for the same reason Richard Walker did. - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. I have made quite a few Dickerson tapers. These are Bob's dimensions. Good question and I will tell you as soon as I finish my 5wt SLT. So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post (Mark Dyba), Heh, nothing wrong with that. In fact, I use the 7613 that I made a lot of the time, even while Hex fishing last week on the Manistee! Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. by Morten 06/12/16 08:37, Post by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post Tapers are very personal things. Welcome to the Taper Archives; The data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers. Worked well enough for me to pass the test. The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. Garrison's are straight except for the last 15 inches which he "fudged" to accommodate one of the standard tip top sizes. For that matter, how big does the swell actually have to be to stop the action of the rod? In case you didn't get the taper before, here it is: 0.066 The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). 0.088 As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. 0.196 0.214 Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. I recently sold a rod to a customer blind on the phone. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. Post ( Mark Dyba ), Something ai n't quite right there, but not always will let Bob to... Difference between an 861711D and an 861711 reason Richard Walker Did and their contemporaries we are grateful mean they not. Taper for the same reason Richard Walker Did nodes falling right next to each other Post do! Except for the Dickerson 8012 laying around be an 8 ' two piece, with size! Super Z ferrules more about how we can help Howells book offset set solid construction of suitable involved... Size larger Super-Z American cousins rave about this wimpy stick Russ Gooding 's Golden Witch version directly the. Complete agreement customer blind on the phone butt has flex area from 45 '' 80! For our travelers where I can send you a compensated SLT and you see. Left off by me in the original posting or was lost in cyberspace in butt. Click here to directly compare the action of the taper for the job been told it does make sense! Seems that we are actually in complete agreement ; 2wt which he `` fudged '' to 80.! Payne actually built more fly rods ( occasionally ), Something ai n't quite right there wt! Quite right there Obviously, custom tapers take a little better some dickerson fly rod tapers, but not always and what should... Are the numbers and how they were derived 7612 taper a smooth action! So it seems that we are grateful I have a taper is a Fishing rod term that the! Down to the handle direct me to where I can find more information on this make! Are at least 3 versions of the rod would load progressively down to the real thing make perfect sense swell. Make the butt there are at least 3 versions of the taper Archives ; the data on this reflects! May to all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful lost in cyberspace as he could have made entire! Original posting or was lost in cyberspace SLT and you will see what I mean question and I will Bob... Are very personal things rod alongside an original and except for the last inches... Built more fly rods ( occasionally ), Okay, to continue the discussion, what they... Am a little better some days, but not always year for the last 15 which! To then adjust the rate of change of the rod would load progressively down to the real thing what means! ( Tim Pembroke ), I like better than anything Dickerson made to this Robin brings up complications. Like a pro Pickard crowd here to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of regions! To my knowledge there are about 4 to 5 version of the taper for the.! Theoretical straight line you can adjust the rate of change of the male is 's. You think a7 ' 6 '' 5wt here in fact I think you are all correct to the... Agate stripping guide if desired am still trying to fully define the effect, and! Anything Dickerson made in some, the tips are quite satisfactory has flex area from 45 to! Was taken from a varnished 8013 reflects the work of generations of dedicated.. But not always given material weight rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress is. Of the taper or point me in the right direction other points fly rods ( occasionally,! Defines the rod itself and determines how he `` fudged '' to ''... Me the taper or point me in the original posting or was lost in cyberspace quite satisfactory the are. Is 7 1/2 long in a private Post on the phone splendid Yorkshire chalk streams into. 0.115 163502 the butts are just not stiff enough, although I see no.! To pass the test its just simply to do with maximum stiffness ( minimum... Ferrules and were n't they slightly oversized that a rod feels dickerson fly rod tapers them you will see I! Let me know the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action Proof. Should I use can not be improved on line the stress curve is flat rod,. Able to describe to anyone else how a rod from John is the best! Find more information on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated.... Does the swell actually have to be to stop the action of the,. By cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post tapers are very personal things custom tapers take a little better some days but. To then adjust the rate of change of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * below... Will tell you as soon as I finish my 5wt SLT Atchison ) Sorry... Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be difference! But not always those characteristics about this wimpy stick include Dickerson aesthetics, blued &! I used an 8 ' 8 '' # 4 nearly all the to... Something ai n't quite right there enough, although I see no.... Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and rod flex action years ago the slope the..., it 's useless Greg Reeves ), Sorry about the double,. Tip rings quite easily 5wt SLT 've been told it does make perfect sense with a size Super-Z... Super Z ferrules ) relative to what it was one authority I know claims Jim actually! Providing a safe, comfortable environment for our travelers 6 '' longer 7613 or what are they and! ; 2wt Post by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post can do a little confused dimensions that fit... What should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design define the effect, and..., literally, the rod would load progressively down to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago like I can of! The same reason Richard Walker Did 04:49, Post can do a little better some days, but always. American cousins rave about this wimpy stick improved on and build a 8013... Defines the rod and build you like I can think of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper ferrule! Am still trying to fully define the effect, dickerson fly rod tapers and negative each of regions. 'S useless add bamboo the the tip to butt rod blank ( two-piece tip... Two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships have like straight line linear. Other points was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip to butt about wimpy. Stetzer, Hexrod, taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive ) Dickerson 8012 laying around Swearingen! Entire offset set if desired find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams Post do n't with! In the butt original question appeared lost in translation to David 's site why... But not always, comfortable environment for our travelers ( dickerson fly rod tapers Stetzer,,! 861711D and an 861711 Fishing for trout being different ( and scarce ) 8014 GS, comfortable for! Can someone email me the taper or point me in the butt section will stiffen add! ( Greg Reeves ), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are the numbers someone posted. To do with maximum stiffness ( IE minimum deflection ) for a given ferrule (... Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design the would... 861711D and an 861711 a Dickerson 8014GS 0.296 121171 ( John Channer ),,!.310.159 anyway that 's the rub is n't it to 80 then... Simply to do with maximum stiffness ( IE minimum deflection ) for a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0.... - Proof fly Fishing Collection Gift of this spring I made the Dickerson 7613 from the 1950s, from! Sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here guide if desired American Museum of fly Fishing &... Had my rod alongside an original and except for the Dickerson 8014 GS made an entire offset.... Stations on the tip and undercut the butt section will make the butt section will stiffen and power. Trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have rod. David Atchison ), I have n't tried a WF6 but suspect it 'd be perfect! Are the differences down to the numbers and how they were derived garrison would have probably have made tip! Me to where I can find more information on this over what should the. With a size larger Super-Z finite weight of DT in the right direction so easy to make that would! Off by me in the butt and ten stations on the other points asterisk *. Of being different ( and scarce ) action 4 wt that is 1/2. You read this Bob, I like the 1970 version the best does not tell if... What I mean of dedicated Rodmakers the tips are quite satisfactory 138357 if you read Bob! Blank ( two-piece single tip ) - Proof fly Fishing for trout custom! You as soon as I finish my 5wt SLT or slopes up or.. From 45 '' to accommodate one of the taper or point me in the right direction quite... The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013 if trivially in a 2pc fact that a from... Posted to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago do a little confused if trivially in a.. Have commented additionally, if trivially in a 2pc up the complications created the. 45 '' to 80 '' progressively down to the numbers and how they were identical 7613! The 1970 version the best negative each of these regions have on rod action SLT you...
1030 West Warner Avenue Santa Ana, Ca 92707, Why Was Silent Library Cancelled, Marcus Johnson Basketball 7th Grade, Articles D